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Poster: BrightBlueBall Date: Jun 21, 2009 5:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: "Victim Or The Crime"


I'm wondering if any of you know why "The Dead" has never played "Victim Or The Crime"? I know that the song was controversial, and I've read the interesting Gerrit Graham piece at http://arts.ucsc.edu/gdead/agdl/votc.html.

However, even with the controversy, the Dead continued to play the song straight through to Jerry's demise. Ratdog plays it to this day. Yet "The Dead" don't touch it. Does anyone know why?

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jun 21, 2009 9:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Victim Or The Crime'

I had the same thought . Though, they played a hell of a lot of different songs on this last tour , there were some interesting omissions .
I know " Victim" was not popular with some Heads , but I liked it . Gave the band a chance to play, scary, and dark . In my book, one of the better later day Bob songs . I mean would you rather hear "Easy Answers" ?

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Poster: pokeyloki Date: Jun 21, 2009 10:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Victim Or The Crime'

The Esau song was also pretty good.

It's hard to do dark 'n creepy when you feel you're at a fambly picnic

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Poster: dirtybuck Date: Jun 21, 2009 5:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Victim Or The Crime'

Because it sucks ?

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Poster: Old_NJ_Head_Zimmer Date: Jun 21, 2009 6:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Victim Or The Crime'

I thought the same

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Poster: thebone Date: Jun 23, 2009 11:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Victim Or The Crime'

I saw the GD play this probably 10 times and suffice to say it is a terrible song that mars any setlist. I absolutely hated hearing it and I know all my touring buddies felt the same way. Only slightly worse the Esau...

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Poster: barongsong Date: Jun 21, 2009 8:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Victim Or The Crime'

Well, I kind of thought it was a downer at first but I've got to admit it kind of grew on me to to the extent that while it still wasn't my favorite song or anything. I do think it was their last good jam vehicle. Some of the Jam sequences were downright awesome especially from late 89-91.

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Jun 21, 2009 8:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Victim Or The Crime'

I agree with barongsong 100%. I like the creepier stuff; "Victim" certainly fits the bill...and some of the jams get pretty cool.

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Jun 22, 2009 12:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Victim Or The Crime'

Another in their "long list of tragedy songs", I like this song for the dark psychedelic jams it would inspire, and its thought provoking questions:
"Did he steal his fate or earn it? "Was he force fed; or did he learn it?" "Whatever happened to his precious self control?" "Am I the victim or the crime?" Good song. Smart lyrics that raise uncomfortable questions. It tries to force you to look inside and examine your soul.
One of the better Weir/Barlow efforts.

This post was modified by SkyDawg on 2009-06-22 07:38:52

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Poster: GennyBenni Date: Jun 22, 2009 6:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Victim Or The Crime'

This song isn't Weir/Barlow, it's Weir/Graham - Gerrit Graham (whose article was cited above) wrote the lyrics for VOTC.

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Jun 22, 2009 2:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Victim Or The Crime'

Whoops! You are correct. I didn't see the credits and forgot that Barlow wasn't Weir's co writer on that one.

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Jun 22, 2009 6:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Victim Or The Crime'

and here is link that works

http://arts.ucsc.edu/gdead/agdl/votc.html

The link above has an extra . in it.

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Poster: Morning Dewd Date: Jun 22, 2009 3:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Victim Or The Crime'

I agree, it was one of the better Weir/Barlow compositions, and one of the better latter day songs in general.They just played it waaaay too often.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Jun 22, 2009 5:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Victim Or The Crime'

a very dark, foreboding song...i enjoy the contrast when it goes into Crazy Fingers, ala DP-17 http://www.archive.org/details/gd1991-09-25.schoeps.andrewf.84858.sbeok.flac1648

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jun 22, 2009 2:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Victim Or The Crime'

Hey that was great! Thanks for linking the essay. It was interesting to read the history, though I must say this is one song I never thought needed to be explained.

I come down on the "like it" side. The first time I ever heard this song was the version on Built To Last, and it is by far the best thing on that album.

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